DCPM Support

PotaJoe

New member
NESMaker NEEDS DCPM support for music!
How are you supposed to make good percussion with just noise?
I have a TON of songs that I made in FL studio and then ported to FamiTracker, all using DCPM for kicks and snares, with noise being used for Hi-Hat, and when I turn off the DCPM it just sounds empty.
Please add this :(
 

stevenshepherd

New member
I don't have the complete answer, other than that others have asked and the answer is complicated. The samples can take up a lot of space, and so putting that space aside just in case someone wanted samples would be a waste for a lot of people who don't want to use the space in that way. Anyway, if you search the forum for DCPM I am sure you will find a more complete answer from Joe. But basically he has said that if one wanted to, it would require working with the code themselves.

The noise channel can do percussion. I know people use pulse to do some solid kick drums too (at least in LSDJ for gameboy. presumably the same can be said for the NES).
 

PotaJoe

New member
stevenshepherd said:
I don't have the complete answer, other than that others have asked and the answer is complicated. The samples can take up a lot of space, and so putting that space aside just in case someone wanted samples would be a waste for a lot of people who don't want to use the space in that way. Anyway, if you search the forum for DCPM I am sure you will find a more complete answer from Joe. But basically he has said that if one wanted to, it would require working with the code themselves.

The noise channel can do percussion. I know people use pulse to do some solid kick drums too (at least in LSDJ for gameboy. presumably the same can be said for the NES).

OK, But they should at least make it an option, like maybye have a toggle that can be sort of like:

DCPM
>[ENABLED] (Less space)
[DISABLED] (More space)
 

PotaJoe

New member
stevenshepherd said:
I don't have the complete answer, other than that others have asked and the answer is complicated. The samples can take up a lot of space, and so putting that space aside just in case someone wanted samples would be a waste for a lot of people who don't want to use the space in that way. Anyway, if you search the forum for DCPM I am sure you will find a more complete answer from Joe. But basically he has said that if one wanted to, it would require working with the code themselves.

The noise channel can do percussion. I know people use pulse to do some solid kick drums too (at least in LSDJ for gameboy. presumably the same can be said for the NES).

Also, I don't really want my hi-hat cutting off my kicks and snares.
 

WolfMerrik

New member
PotaJoe said:
Also, I don't really want my hi-hat cutting off my kicks and snares.

Definitely, a lot of compromise needs to be made when making music for the NES, even more so with NESMaker.
You can make kicks that use the Triangle, and then still use the triangle for basslines too when not using a kick drum.

I do agree, DPCM would be great, but it seems like there are SO many changes that would need to be made it just isn't possible (short of recoding an engine yourself). Hopefully, at the very least, the famitracker import/effects/etc might become less limited, which will make things much better for musicians. In the meantime, enjoy the challenge of the limitations! =P
 

stevenshepherd

New member
Yea I have seen a similar strategy with the triangle channel. it works really well.

I have been a beta backer and followed this for a while and trust that Joe and the team know what they are doing. Based on their responses to the DCPM question, it is way more complicated than just having an on/off switch and if it was that easy they would include it.
 

CutterCross

Active member
The DPCM channel can corrupt input reads from the controller if a sample is played, as well as other bus conflicts. You'd have to write a custom routine for handling inputs. That's another reason why NESmaker won't support them natively.
 

WolfMerrik

New member
CutterCross said:
The DPCM channel can corrupt input reads from the controller if a sample is played, as well as other bus conflicts. You'd have to write a custom routine for handling inputs. That's another reason why NESmaker won't support them natively.

This is definitely another reason why NESMaker will not have this "out of the box".
It, of course, does not mean that someone won't develop a way to do this (who knows if they will share it).
Changing the overall sound engine is definitely possible, but no one has attempted it yet.

Because of all the things that could go wrong; it is smart they don't touch it with a ten-foot pole (unless drunk and it is referenced as theoretical)

That being said, I would love to have more than 9 frames in music, or some of the other missing FT features... can we talk about those for a while? =P
 

CutterCross

Active member
WolfMerrik said:
This is definitely another reason why NESMaker will not have this "out of the box".
It, of course, does not mean that someone won't develop a way to do this (who knows if they will share it).
Changing the overall sound engine is definitely possible, but no one has attempted it yet.

Because of all the things that could go wrong; it is smart they don't touch it with a ten-foot pole (unless drunk and it is referenced as theoretical)

That being said, I would love to have more than 9 frames in music, or some of the other missing FT features... can we talk about those for a while? =P
Honestly I don't have any problems with the extra limitations NESmaker and GGsound have. Any good Famitracker composer can cleverly work around those limitations. Really all stuff like channel volume control and effects are just convienences for the composer, you can find other ways to achieve the same results.

As for the 9 frames issue, I've recently heard that it only applies to using more than 9 DIFFERENT frames for each channel, and that you can reuse frames to make a song longer, but I haven't tested that yet so I don't know if it's true. But also keep in mind that the longer a song is, the more space the song takes up in the music bank. So it's still probably best to limit it to 9 frames per song for memory reasons if you're making a lot of songs.
 

PotaJoe

New member
OK, didn't expect this post to get this much attention.

I see where you are all coming from.

The way I make music for NESmaker at the moment is using FL studio as it is easier to make music in, then I export a .mid of it and import it into an older version of FamiTracker, then I add some instruments.

To be honest, it would take a while to have the noise and triangle change instruments during the song because of how it imports, I would suggest Famitracker adds an instrument change option but they have cut midi support in recent updates.

DCPM would be nice for sound effects at least anyway.
 

CutterCross

Active member
PotaJoe said:
OK, didn't expect this post to get this much attention.

I see where you are all coming from.

The way I make music for NESmaker at the moment is using FL studio as it is easier to make music in, then I export a .mid of it and import it into an older version of FamiTracker, then I add some instruments.

To be honest, it would take a while to have the noise and triangle change instruments during the song because of how it imports, I would suggest Famitracker adds an instrument change option but they have cut midi support in recent updates.

DCPM would be nice for sound effects at least anyway.
The best way (imo) to make music in Famitracker is to make EVERYTHING in Famitracker from the ground up. The music will be far better optimized and you won't have to deal with cross-compatibility issues between programs and file formats. I've done it that way for years, and NESmaker has so many more limitations when it comes to their sound engine that DPCM sample support should be the least of your concern. You really have to get clever with composing if you want to make any complex music for NESmaker, especially since it doesn't support stuff Effects or Channel Volume Control.
 

PotaJoe

New member
Well anyway, I'm hoping that NESmaker's music maker will be a bit like FL Studio's piano roll, as that is MUCH easier than a tracker.

Also, you don't need to build a song in famitracker from the ground up to make it sound good, I managed to make a pretty good one with echoes and everything with an old version of famitracker and a midi from FL Studio.
 

NAveryW

New member
I was disappointed to learn that DPCM wasn't available, particularly because the places I'm interested in using it (cutscenes, maybe the game over screen) wouldn't involve controller input while the sounds are playing! Making it available with a warning about its nature feels to me like it would be very worthwhile.
 
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