Witch City

Gazimaluke

Member
I played it on the phone again today. Really need to test it on the computer with a controller. I would agree with jorotroid that the music is a bit squeaky. Other than that I'd say it's the most game I've seen from NESmaker this far.
 

Kasumi

New member
From your response to Bucket Mouse, it seems like you may not be aware you can get where they got without falling there.
j3YwMz2.gif

Edit: Or re-reading and re-playing (there doesn't seem to be a way to fall there from above), maybe not, but I'd still recommend something different than just the enemy reload on that platform to discourage "stuckness" at this area. It was easy enough to get there that I also thought it was the intended route.

Edit2: I cheated and I guess it doesn't need changes. ;) I am mystified, however. Edit3: And now I did not cheat and am no longer mystified. I'm not sure how I wasn't able to do it, because I was trying to do it.

Boss exploit:
qP8TxqF.gif

Enter room, leave room, come back. Boss is free.

Projectile Wrapping:
2taGWZk.gif

Which is a general NES Maker bug, I suppose.

There are state machine issues too. The worst one is you can't move left or right while airborne and holding B (due to the dash). Even when grounded, I'd actually rather walk while holding the button. (Suppose the user lands holding left+B. They should walk on landing. The dash could still be activated on specifically a press.) Let me know if you want other state machine feedback like this.

Edit: Actually one more state machine thing since it's worse than the others. If you punch, then switch to boomerang while punching the character is locked as if they were in a cutscene.
Hy51L3U.gif

You get unlocked by pressing B or jumping with a direction, so it's not game breaking but still something worth looking into.

Getting switched to melee when there's no boomerang ammo was a bit annoying. I recommend instead that you simply make a punch happen when boomerang ammo is zero. The difference being that when ammo comes back, you will throw a boomerang without having to press select to get back to the boomerang.
Edit: Making the weapon switch sound effect to let the user know it happened could also help.

You can do the dash before you pick up the wind dash item in the beginning.

I'll agree with the others that I don't like the squeaks. It doesn't help that it's such a short loop.

Edit2: One more bug. This actually happened to me a lot until I tried to reproduce it.
E5O6WiM.gif

Notice the huge warp. (Emulation was slowed down for this GIF).

Don't let all the nitpicks fool you, I think it's a solid start. Good job!
 

jorotroid

Member
Gazimaluke said:
I played it on the phone again today. Really need to test it on the computer with a controller. I would agree with jorotroid that the music is a bit squeaky. Other than that I'd say it's the most game I've seen from NESmaker this far.

Thanks! And thanks for the feedback.

Kasumi said:
From your response to Bucket Mouse, it seems like you may not be aware you can get where they got without falling there.
Edit: Or re-reading and re-playing (there doesn't seem to be a way to fall there from above), maybe not, but I'd still recommend something different than just the enemy reload on that platform to discourage "stuckness" at this area. It was easy enough to get there that I also thought it was the intended route.

Edit2: I cheated and I guess it doesn't need changes. ;) I am mystified, however. Edit3: And now I did not cheat and am no longer mystified. I'm not sure how I wasn't able to do it, because I was trying to do it.

Heh, I'm with all the edits, I'm a little confused with what you ultimately are trying to tell me here. I'm not sure what you mean by cheating and not cheating.


Kasumi said:
Boss exploit:
Enter room, leave room, come back. Boss is free.

I have a pretty good idea of what's causing this, so it will be fixed for sure.


Kasumi said:
Projectile Wrapping:
Which is a general NES Maker bug, I suppose.

I have less of an idea on how to go about fixing that, but it's also pretty low on my priority list. So I'll fix it, but probably not by the time I put out the next demo. If I can manage to fit in scrolling when 4.1 comes out, I guess it will be a slightly less common issue.


Kasumi said:
There are state machine issues too. The worst one is you can't move left or right while airborne and holding B (due to the dash). Even when grounded, I'd actually rather walk while holding the button. (Suppose the user lands holding left+B. They should walk on landing. The dash could still be activated on specifically a press.) Let me know if you want other state machine feedback like this.

Oh, great catch! I have pretty good idea how to fix that. Also by all means give as much feedback as you are willing. (That said, I will say I am aware of several bugs with animation states)


Kasumi said:
Edit: Actually one more state machine thing since it's worse than the others. If you punch, then switch to boomerang while punching the character is locked as if they were in a cutscene.
You get unlocked by pressing B or jumping with a direction, so it's not game breaking but still something worth looking into.
Hm. Ok. I probably just missed some variable to reset when switching weapons.

Kasumi said:
Getting switched to melee when there's no boomerang ammo was a bit annoying. I recommend instead that you simply make a punch happen when boomerang ammo is zero. The difference being that when ammo comes back, you will throw a boomerang without having to press select to get back to the boomerang.
Edit: Making the weapon switch sound effect to let the user know it happened could also help.
I was leaning towards the sound effect, but I'll give the other idea some thought, too.

Kasumi said:
You can do the dash before you pick up the wind dash item in the beginning.

Heh, you caught me. I only made the dash item so that people playing the demo would know that the dash existed. I haven't decided yet if I want the dash to be an actual collected item, or an ability you have from the start. The deciding factor is that right now I have it set up to easily handle 16 types of collectibles. So if I want that slot to go for another idea, then I will rather have the dash be an ability you have from the start. But it's way too early to decide that for now, I think.

Kasumi said:
I'll agree with the others that I don't like the squeaks. It doesn't help that it's such a short loop.

Thanks for your perspective on this issue. I am hoping to try making the loop longer first before getting rid of the squeaks. But I'm also going to wait for more opinions on this.


Kasumi said:
Edit2: One more bug. This actually happened to me a lot until I tried to reproduce it.
E5O6WiM.gif

Notice the huge warp. (Emulation was slowed down for this GIF).

Dang. I was getting that issue, too. It was on my list of things to fix, then I stopped getting it, so I thought maybe I fixed it at some point. It has to do with modifications I did to the knock-back code. I might just go back to the original knock-back code when I port this project over to 4.1.

Kasumi said:
Don't let all the nitpicks fool you, I think it's a solid start. Good job!
Thanks! Glad you still liked it despite its flaws. Thanks for pointing out these issues to me!
 

Kasumi

New member
By cheating I mean I moved the player character by editing RAM to see the problem I was meant to solve. By being mystified, I meant having seen the problem I did not see how it could be solved. And by not cheating I mean I did figure out how to solve it without editing RAM.

State machiney stuff:
You can throw a boomerang (or punch) after dying:
A5gQX4m.gif

Your arm or boomerang gets created at 0, 0, seemingly.
Punching cancels the wall jump ready state:
KERPkjq.gif

Not too big a problem, but the boomerang does not which makes me think one of the two is not intentional.
Frozen run animation:
jpa0B04.gif

Hold right, then press and hold B.
6ai086s.gif

Dash attempt while crouching does a dance in the ground.
 

jorotroid

Member
Kasumi said:
By cheating I mean I moved the player character by editing RAM to see the problem I was meant to solve. By being mystified, I meant having seen the problem I did not see how it could be solved. And by not cheating I mean I did figure out how to solve it without editing RAM.
Ah, got it. So what are your final thoughts on that section of the game now that you figured out how to do it?

Kasumi said:
State machiney stuff:
You can throw a boomerang (or punch) after dying:
Your arm or boomerang gets created at 0, 0, seemingly.
Punching cancels the wall jump ready state:
Not too big a problem, but the boomerang does not which makes me think one of the two is not intentional.
Frozen run animation:
Hold right, then press and hold B.
Dash attempt while crouching does a dance in the ground.
Dang. I thought I handled most of those. The running in place and dance in the ground are some of the animation bugs I was talking about. I'll add it all to the to do list. Thanks again!
 

jorotroid

Member
Hey all! So if you have been following this thread, you know there are some differing opinions on the squeak sounds in the main streets music. In addition to that I have gotten some other varied feedback for the demo. So to help me sift through what people are thinking and hopefully make the best game I can make, here is a survey that I would really appreciate you taking if you have played the demo. It's all optional, so if any question is confusing for any reason, feel free to skip it. Thanks everyone! You're all awesome!

https://goo.gl/forms/8vEokzcwYbTtB0lV2
 

dale_coop

Moderator
Staff member
During my lunch time... came back to Witch City!
I found every items, went in every rooms... (that I could find :p)

I even succeeded to enter in 10101010101010 screens!
Jumping here:
Witch-City-Demo-1-NESMaker-2018-11-09-13-14-05.png


Then upstairs:
Witch-City-Demo-1-NESMaker-2018-11-09-13-12-47.png


Then jump to the up screens :) (1010101010101)
 

dale_coop

Moderator
Staff member
With wall jumps.
If you jump to the right, when the screen loads, you can manage to do a wall jump (on a invisible wall? a test on a an not initilized variable...? a wrong collision data...?) and jump back to the previous screen, and wall jump again, ... :p to go up
 

jorotroid

Member
dale_coop said:
During my lunch time... came back to Witch City!
I found every items, went in every rooms... (that I could find :p)

I even succeeded to enter in 10101010101010 screens!

Haha. The wall jump collision check is probably warping to the other side of the screen checking the solid tiles there. I really didn't expect anyone to go up there, but I was worried that by leaving that open, people might try and get frustrated by not figuring out how to get up there.
 

Kasumi

New member
I feel the enemies discourage attempts at the thing, now that I've done it. Say a player is pretty sure how to get up there. The enemies make them lose health on each attempt. So my opinion is they punish not having the muscle memory for the execution rather than discouraging falling. The punishment for failing enough times is a total game restart which is a reason not to try. It's a stiff punishment for an execution based puzzle.
 

Dirk

Member
dale_coop said:
With wall jumps.
If you jump to the right, when the screen loads, you can manage to do a wall jump (on a invisible wall? a test on a an not initilized variable...? a wrong collision data...?) and jump back to the previous screen, and wall jump again, ... :p to go up

Ha, I made it! But I get hurt when I stay too far left.

Witch City Demo 1_000.png
 

jorotroid

Member
Kasumi said:
I feel the enemies discourage attempts at the thing, now that I've done it. Say a player is pretty sure how to get up there. The enemies make them lose health on each attempt. So my opinion is they punish not having the muscle memory for the execution rather than discouraging falling. The punishment for failing enough times is a total game restart which is a reason not to try. It's a stiff punishment for an execution based puzzle.
Thanks! This gives me some ideas on how to better approach this in later versions.


Dirk said:
Ha, I made it! But I get hurt when I stay too far left.

I think the getting hurt is some sort of quirk of the NESmaker modules. I've experienced that in other contexts. Fortunately, you shouldn't be able to get to that position in the final game if I do my job right.


functionalform said:
who didn't try to see if they could boomerang it?
Dirk said:
Well, I'm a cat person... I still tried it though.

You monsters! ... I made the cat and know that it doesn't interact with the player, and I've thrown boomerangs at it. ... For testing purposes, of course.
 

jorotroid

Member
digitalbooty said:
@jorotroid How did you get the melee attack to move up and down with the player when she initiates it in air?
I made an object parenting system. I have been reluctant to write a tutorial on it because I keep on feeling like 4.1 will come out any day. But if you want a general idea of what I did, here is a list:
  • Added a variable to the ObjectBytesRam to hold the index of the a parent.
  • Modified the CreateObject macro to take in an additional parameter which will set the parent variable. (A value of #$FF represents no parent)
  • Created a Macro for setting the offset of the child. Because the lo position variable won't be used by the child, I store the offset in the lo position variables.
  • In the object updates, if the value of the parent variable is FF, then the update continues as normal, otherwise it will set the position of the object equal to the parent plus the offset.

I think that's roughly it. You'll get a bunch of errors for changing the CreateObject macro to take in an additional parameter, but the console will tell you where to find all of the CreateObject lines to change. After that, when you make the attack object, set it as a child to the player1_object, and give it the appropriate offset.
 

WhiteHat94

New member
Really liking the look of the game. I tried playing it on console, on both Everdrive and Powerpak, and on both it freezes and hardlocks all over the place. I want to play thru it on console but after trying for a few minutes I can't get past the 3rd or 4th screen without it freezing. It seems fine on emu, so not sure what the issue is. Just letting you know so hopefully that can get fixed.
 
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